Compliance Commitee/Traffic Cops

[What Next]

So how do ya'll feel about the Board of Idiots supplying the people on the Compliance Committee with cameras to "catch" people rolling through stop signs and radar guns to check speeders? Not that I don't think that this is a daily issue in this community of obviously VERY rushed and busy people who think rules and laws don't apply to THEM, but I'm tired of my HOA dollars going to stupid things like this. Next thing you know, we'll be forking over more dollars for a shiny new guillotine.

[Guest]

Im not going to worry about it myself since what they do not know is i have been taking pictures myself even before this issue came about of the maintenance personel and the ROVING patrol employees running stop signs. Guess when i am brought before the board my defense will be my own pictures of them. Gee i wonder how they plan to handle that one. I will pay when they pay.

[What Next]

Hehe....good thinking. If only I had my camera posed every morning when that big gold-ish Expedition flies through the intersection at Baker and Dogwood - maybe if that woman left a little earlier in the morning to get her kids to the bus stop.....ahhh never mind, doubt that would help someone like her.

I'm not so much "worried" about it...I just think our dollars could be better spent on OTHER issues within the community.

My other peeve is with the construction trucks that blaze through here going about 50 mph with no regard for anyone that happens to be walking or trying to drive...they come right through the middle of the road expecting you to move or be run over....it's time to start reporting them.

[Guest]

LOL, yeah those construction company vehicles you talk about. Speeding , blocking the road, etc i was thinking that just maybe they become my future retirement fund . Now that would be a lawsuit worth having. Like i said its just a thought. Sad thing though is i was brought up not believing in those such things. So guess they are safe from me anyways.

[Fed Up]

I whole-heartedly agree with the last posters comment..."I just think our dollars could be better spent on OTHER issues within the community", but with a few more of my two cents.

Patrol has the ability to improve their relationship with all the homeowners here if they would be allowed and would do what we have them here for. Under the direction of our general manager, he wants them to "catch those that may roll through a stop sign when no-one is in sight" and "those that exceed posted speed limits" by having them use radar as an enforcement tool. Yes, the dreaded radar is among our midst and in the hands of non-law enforcement people to issue citations. First, their training is minimal. Second, they don't even want to do it and may not even know how to use it properly (i.e. calibration every time they use it). Third, we need patrol to do just that, PATROL. Not that I agree with speed racer running through my neighborhood, this is a law enforcement responsibility as it should be and should be reported as such. Wanna-be police officers (i.e. patrol) lack the necessary training to be this long arm of the law in our neighborhood, much less enforcement of the law. There are law enforcement officers that do live here and patrol if and when we have any problems, let THEM do their jobs. If we have speeders that need to be slowed down, identify them (i.e. license plate) and dial 911 to report this problem. If I have a problem with these type of issues, the last person I'm going to call is the general manager and the Lake Holiday patrol. What I expect from patrol is this; patrol the neighborhoods having a watchful eye out for people that have the potential for breaking into homes, you know them, the little hoodlums roaming the streets at all hours of the night and the suspicious cars in areas they shouldn't be, and keeping those that shouldn't be in our gated community OUT! Patrol at Lake Holiday has slowly become the general managers "private police force" and SHOULD NOT be tolerated. When is this miss-use of our homeowners fees going to stop? Maybe a call to Frederick County Sheriff Williamson is in order.

[Guest]

Fed Up you are right on target. You said what i wanted to say also. All that will become of the patrol playing cops is going to do is divide this community even more than it already is. They will become hated in a very short time and i see many court hearings in the future fighting the legallity of the use of radar guns being used by non certified / non commissioned law enforcement officers. I would love to know the cost of those radar guns also so i can deduct that amount from my next member dues. I certainly do not remember voting for such a waste of my hard earned dollars.

[Guest]

Don't worry you'll never get to vote on how your monies are spent. As for the clown patrol, Zip or Zap was a cop in Clark Country I'm told. I think he ran for Sheriff but was defeated and you know they leave the force after losing. The other 2 clowns are a hoot. I saw one blocking the road last week on Master while holding two small boys against the wall of an old empty boarded up house. They looked all of 8-10. Thugs. Probably doing crack and pimp'n per the report. I've talked to the GM and I'd have to say he's staying to get the free property promised. The guy doesn't seem to have much on the ball but neither does anyone on the board. You might want to check out Pat Sheilds on the radar. I was told at the gate that their taping all cars coming and going from the guard house. Take a look at the cameras on the corners of the bldg.They must have someone scanning the tapes at rush hours in the morning and evenings. I've talked to a few people who been given "tickets" for $50 bucks. The Summit Nazis are on the march.................

[Guest]

Oh thanks for the heads up about the guard gate. Will be fun weekend making a quick on/off slip cover for my tags. Now that should really make them growl. I really cant wait to catch a board member on my cam.

[Guest]

As usual an arguement about anything is still an arguement. A stop sign you know that red funny shaped thing that you see here in Lake Holiday and downtown Winchester, and allover this country. At 16 when you apply for a drivers license your taught to stop----a full stop. It is required by law. But not at Lake Holiday we like to think everyone can decide to abide or not for themselves. Tell a judge downtown that you did not have to stop at the funny red sign you could see nothing was coming or it is stupid to put a sign there, or maybe you can try I object to you spending my money to buy the sign and pay to enforce it. Tell the officer who is issuing you your ticket that he is just being unfair, or picking on you. Why would anyone object to the board trying to just make it safe to drive on these "private" roads. While you nit pick about the cost of a camera think how much money the local law enforcement could make in a week of patroling Lake Holiday. The tickets for speeding and not stopping at stop signs could had lots of cold cash to their coffers. I surely hope it is not you, your child, your dog, or your property that is hit by a speeder or someone who ignores a stop sign, but I bet you would feel different about a camera to record the "accident".

[Fed Up]

Guest, we are not talking about going downtown to the judge, we're talking about the wanna be patrol doing everything except what they should be doing. I agree that there are some that think the stop signs are at the least a yield sign to them but running radar for speeders is a whole different ballgame. We ALL want our streets safe regardless of the what may be the cause. The focus here is whether or not patrol should be playing law enforcement and by who's authority. They are using a law enforcement tool by which they are not law enforcement. Theres a difference in seeing someone run a stop sign (and I agree they should be cited) and utilizing a radar gun with limited if any experience AND they are not law enforcement or certified in its use. Our patrol should be watching our houses, road hazards, gate activity, etc., not being something they could'nt be before they got this job or was fired from same. Look around as you drive the neighborhood and see how many trees are leaning precariously into the street (the office has been notified) waiting for you to go by my minding your own business so they can fall on you. This should be a task of patrol to notify, correct, warn, whatever may be necessary, NOT run radar. Patrol has become a pet project of the general manager to swoop down on the community as the long arm of the law. They are not nor ever will be the law. Look how lax they have become in reporting disabled cars that haven't run in years sitting on blocks in our neighbors yards degrading our neighborhood or listen real good and you'll hear all those four wheelers buzzing about beach 3 that they were supposed to stop. Those gates and dirt berms did a lot of good, just look at the trails over or beside them. If this is an arguement to you, so be it!

[Question?]

How many accidents has Lake Holiday had from someone yielding at a stop sign? I've seen at least two cars in a ditch from the icy road conditions. I don't agree with speeding but I also don't agree with someone using radar when they are not qualified. What about installing more speed bumps?

[LHCC Member]

Please help. Can anyone show me where Virginia law states that non-law enforcement personnel must be certified to use a radar gun on private property for HOA purposes? I have been looking and cannot find any references. I understand that state and municiple law enforcement need certification in order for the courts to judge on speeding citations. Your help is appreciated.

[guest]

Lets cut the crap. Who gives a dam. The roving patrol is a total waste of 100k per year of our money. I can think of hundreds of better places to spend that kind of money. Get ride of the roving patrol along with a GM that has his pet people and pet roving patrol and SAVE!!!

[always stop]

you know i have really notice last couple days going to work and returning home that the patrol if they would just park at the gate we could have the dam fund well built up fast from all the people that dont stop at the stop signs at the gate area. Forget all the other stop signs all they need do is sit at the gate.

[LHCC Member]

School was canceled throughout Berkeley County when officials discovered that all but two of the 87 school buses at the county garage suffered tire damage. At about 3 a.m., the vandals got into the secured property of the Berkeley County Schools’ Transportation Department and removed the valve stems and cores from one or two tires of the buses. Several after-school programs were also canceled for the day.
Now if you want to do away with the LHCC Patrol, then would you accept this type of vandalism happening within Lake Holiday? Remember when vandals went around and defaced the signs within the community? I guess that is OK with you. Remember when the individual tore down the fencing around the tennis court with their automobile? I guess that is OK with you also.
It is impossible for Patrol be everywhere at any one time to prevent every act of vandalism, but Patrol has shown that their presence does make an impact. We do not have as much vandalism as there once was, and property owners drive more responsibly.

If you believe that doing away with the cost of Patrol is going to save you money in dues, then consider your cost of repairs due to vandalism. So it is OK to run stop signs or speed around the roads? Take into account the cost to you if someone failed to stop or was speeding and hit your automobile. No, the other person's insurance is not going to cover the cost of your damage. Without a police report and proof that the other person was at fault, your insurance will have to cover the cost of your repairs. The County Sheriff has already stated that they will not provide accident reports for traffic accidents within Lake Holiday. This will cause your insurance premiums to increase. And by the way, if you are injured, guess who gets to pay for the hospital and doctor bills. Now where was any money saved?

Do you expect the County Sheriff to patrol Lake Holiday roads and write citations for people running stop signs and speeding? The County Sheriff has informed the Board of Directors that law enforcement will not write tickets for people running stop signs or speeding within Lake Holiday. These are private roads and not VDOT certified. It is goiing to cost the association alot of money to have the roads VDOT certified.

I hope you see where Lake Holiday needs to have a Patrol presence, unless you don't give a crap about yourself or others in the community. Maybe Bill Masters or Uncle Murray (Ogunquit) or the group of membership lot owners who are suing the Association have an intellectual perspective for you.

[Fed Up]

Patrol should remain a presence within Lake Holiday doing what they were originally intended for, safeguarding as best as possible our properties and the properties of lake Holiday. To make comments such as "The County Sheriff has already stated that they will not provide accident reports for traffic accidents within Lake Holiday", I wonder where you get your information? As I know first hand as do many others that have had an accident here IN Lake Holiday, the Frederick County Deputies do respond and write accident reports. The spreading of falsehoods such as this is what creates discord among the residents as they are only hearing about it on one side-your biased one. I have a suggestion, spend some time and talk to a board member about the issues that are present here. Also, share some positives here. I did, and was enlightened to current several issues that have been blasted to the nth degree from naysayers such as the previous poster. No, I don't agree with everything the board does or their spending habits, and just as much I don't agree with all the frivilous law suits that keep popping up. No one wants to see their largest investment dwindle due to a lack of services that are provided here. I, like most people here, hate spending money on attorney fees unnecessarily or wasting money on a patrol that has shifted their focus on what matters most to those that live here. We have a great place here, we make it or break it. For me, I will choose wisely.

[Very Worried]

Yes, LHCC Member, I agree with you. Cross Junction is such a dangerous place with such a high rate of vandalism that we need the patrol. I think there must be 10 - 15 breakins a day here at Lake Holiday, and many of these 10 year old vandals are so intimidating that it is no wonder the County Sheriff can't control them. I don't have numbers, but there must be a lot of rapes and murders and armed robberies here too. Probably 20 a day or so. When you add in the car-jackings, the drug hang outs on just about every corner, and the countless muggings, a lot of which just go unreported, I want to scream. The question is not why we have a roving patrol, but why we don't have a staff of 25 or more armed with semi-automatic weapons and riot gear. When you consider that they are saving my life and that of my family, no price is too high. The other thing I was going to mention is that the other day I saw some older kids playing outside unsupervised by a minimum of 3 adults. I could not believe such recklessness was allowed to take place. We are talking about human lives here. I wanted to raise this with their parents, but I did not dare get out of my car lest I be assaulted. I also felt it was better to raise this with the GM and the board, and I did feel safe getting out of my car at the office because the roving patrol was right there. My neighbors and I discussed making a run to Valley Lumber and getting some plywood to board up our windows, but we don't dare go out unless we travel in a caravan and stay in both close sight and communication of each other. This is getting worse than Iraq but I will not be driven from my home. These outlaws will not win! I can't believe the people that don't recognize this and appreciate we need patrol presence on every street corner. By the way, I came across an ad in a military surplus magazine for several used tanks. There was also several fully armored vehicles available as a package sale. I'm going to send Ray Sohl an email to see if we can get these for patrol. I can't believe that these fine young men are driving around in regular vehicles without adequate protection. Who is going to pay for the loss of life? Who I ask? I sleep better knowing that we are focused on spending whatever it takes to keep us safe.

[phantom]

if the story is true and we donn`t have a certified p.o.a. then these tickets don`t mean crap, the next episode of axe men will be filmed at my house, because those stupid tree huggin laws don`t stand either? I hope big tough zeb has handcuffs so he can hook up allison, heisey, chuck james lou einstman and the list goes on, even you house wifes that were on the board to start a damn recipe club, i hope you all serve time and get your s--t pushed in, even you zeb and your false tickets and restraints,

[Guest]

Same old stuff. A little bit of crime is okay. Speeding is not right but what is even more important and not right is that some feel the person who is catching the speeder is illegeal, not qualified to catch the speeder. Come on a litte comman sense might be in order. To think someone caught speeding would actually use the defense that the person who stopped me is not qualified to do so. Some people will find fault with anything as an excuse to whine about the board. It seem to me the easiest solution to all of this bickering and whineing is STOP speeding---stop running stop signs. Someone mentioned that law enforcement officers live here. The key word is they live here, their home is here they are not on duty. I wonder if they object to the patrol trying to keep this community safe for their families? Do we really need a murder, a rape or a certain number of break ins to take measures to protect as best we can all who live here. The things you are complaining about are not lawful actions by the people doing them but yet you find fault with the patrol for trying to stop this unlawful behavior.I can assure you if the murder, rape, or break in is at your house you will sing a different tune. How many accidents are enough to convience you people to be on the side of prevention to the best of our ability.

[guest]

Wake up previous poster-the issue is the value of the roving patrol vs. the cost. The real cost of the roving patrol excees 100K. a year. What we get for that is a little of nothing unless you think some guy running around burning gas over miles of road is doing anything more then just that. As a gated community we are better portected then the rest of virginia and believe it our not our community like everywhere else in virginia pay taxes and are protected by the county and state police. the roving patrol is as usless as tits on a bull and I'm tired of paying for the usless service.

[phantom]

murders and rapes happen everywhere! officer timbrook was killed two blocks from a police station. the patrol is a money suckin drama show for the elderly. they speed on I-81 . they speed on 522 yeah we all should stop whatever it is we do , but this is the real world and if you want the kind of protection your already paying for. move and go get a bodyguard! im sure its much safer.

[Future Bodyguard]

phantom, I like the way you think. We should not spare any expense for personal safety here at Lake Holiday. If it takes personal body guards to get the job done, so be it. To be fiscally conservative, let's limit it to 1 bodyguard per family. Screw the vacant lot owners, they're never here anyway, but we'd get to spread the bodyguard cost over these suckers. If there's 800 homes and maybe 800 vacant lots, and a bodyguard would cost about $30,000 a year, we could get this done for about $15,000 a house. That's only an extra $1250 a month in dues. We all need to keep in mind that no amount is too much to pay for personal safety. If you don't want a personal bodyguard, would you prefer to die? I think not. The board is going to have a budget meeting come up. I'll go and propose that they start the hiring right away. It may take some time to get 800 bodyguards, but we've got to get right on this. And I know, some of the perennial malcontents are going to say that an extra $1250 per month in dues is completely ridiculous, but we can all agree that there's always 1 complainer in every group.

Given the job he's done, of course Zeb should head this whole thing. He might need some extra supervisory personnel to go from the roving patrol to handling 800 bodyguards, so that extra $1250 per month might be a little light. Zeb can grow into this responsibility just fine. Remember when we all thought that Leeanne was so indispensible? Once Ray canned her and replaced her with Zeb's wife Robin, thinks have been smooth as silk. Once you get the right person on the work, the problems go away and things go smoothly. I think we can all agree that Zeb will make sure this whole bodyguard operation is a smooth running machine.

I am actually feeling hopeful again.

[Guest]

The tickets for speeding and not stopping at stop signs could had lots of cold cash to their coffers.

Yeah right...as if any of the money they "collect" for these infractions is going to be accounted for??? What a laugh.

[Guest]

You people will take any subject and run it right down the same old rut worn road. You sole purpose in life is to complain about the board. I am suprised that all of you have not inquired as to how much toilet paper is used, what brand, and who got the contract for selling it. I read here every day posts from people who while they think they are great treasurer candiates have never run for the seat on the board. The subject started to be whether it was legal or not for the patrol employees to use any equipment or even if they are allowed to catch or stop someone who is breaking the law by speeding or running a stop sign. You all just whip out your comic relief. You argue over everything just so you have an excuse to put forth your personal opinion about what is right for everyone just because you think so. You defend speeding, even make fun of someone getting raped or murdered, expect law enforcement employee to be at your beck and call because you say so. Grow up, get over your crusade agsainst "the board". Who appointed you chief in charge of the safety of Lake Holiday ?

[phantom]

nobody made fun of a rape or murder, but here in the world i live in it happens everyday, just pick up the paper, 10 years ago we had a neighbor of mine shoot his wife with a 12 guage shotgun on lakeview, bad stuff happens everywhere and rovuing patrols or the haines agency can`t stop it. its just life, shut the gate down and put someone at the lake to look for boat stickers. lets go public.

[Guest]

Massanutten, Lake of the Woods, The Woods, all places similar to the Summit none have gates all are cheaper to live at and all have more to offer anyone see a pattern here? Could it be that we just have very poor leadership with priorities that matter to no one but themselves. Did we need a fancy gate? No. did we need a fancy clubhouse that no one uses? No. Did we need to build a new bus stop? No. Do we need dumpsters when we all pass two everyday that we can use for free? No. Wake up board members you are making this a black hole. I for one am tired of supporting your inflated property value can't help that you board members paid to much and are house poor with everything dependant on you being able to get your investment back when you decide to abandon ship.

[Drowning]

I believe it is a right of every citizen to request a "ride along" with a police officer (or so it is the case in new York City).

I think I am going to request the same from the Keystone Force here. We pay them, I think we should be able to see what it is they do daily.

I have an issue with the Lake Patrol guy sitting with 3 or 4 lifeguards at the lake chit chatting, while my daughter is being tossed by the wake cause by a boat that failed to slow down while passing by the "no wake" zone. So there's the office not patrolling the water, and there are the lifeguards having a little party of their own.

Let's get with these guys and ride with them and evaluate them. Let's see what our money gets us.

[Guest]

Better yet why have a boat patrol after 9:00PM. What's he doing and protecting?? Big block head just cruises, never stopping the idiots running into the marina. We could cut this staff by 50 % and still get the same coverage. What about Opie, the radar boy? Looks like one of the players in "Children of the Corn" or a board members off spring. Reall freaky dude to converse with about issues on the road.

[Guest]

Don't worry about the wakes a few more homes and one bad accident and it will be a 10HP limit and you will no longer have any wakes. So long power boats!!! Course with no power boats won't need a Marina so another source of revenue will dry up, can anyone say special assessment!!!

[2nd round for poyer]

word has it poyer is going to run for the board. god help us he is the last person that we need.